Grip pressure makes a huge difference

[Urban_Warrior]

I was gripping too tight and pulling shots, so Ioosened up a bit and my accuracy improved. I guess it's the small things. What fundamental thing did you fix that helped your shooting?

 

[Landon]

Loosening up even slightly made my groups way tighter too

 

[Drycreek]

I was gripping too tight and pulling shots, so Ioosened up a bit and my accuracy improved. I guess it's the small things. What fundamental thing did you fix that helped your shooting?

Practice ! I got my first revolver at age 16, and I’m now 79 in about a month. I went from miserable to pretty damn good in a couple years, after burning all the .22 LR I could afford.

Then came my first medium bore, an old pre Model 10 S&W in .38 S&W of all things (it was becoming obsolete even then). It was soon replaced by a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Mag, soon joined by another obsolete revolver, a Smith 1917 in .45 ACP or .45 Auto Rimmed. It had been shortened and nickel plated by someone and I didn’t keep it long, the barrel was worn out from all the military rounds it had digested.

About that time I started reading everything Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, and Jeff Cooper ever wrote. Tremendously enlightening to a would be pistolero !

Then came my first seriously recoiling handgun, a Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag of course. At that point in my life, and for many years, I shot lots of handguns very frequently. From a Randall Raider, (a Colt Commander clone) to a TC .375 Winchester and lots of stuff in between. If I was mowing, fishing on the river, or just walking in the woods, I had some kind of handgun on me.

I couldn’t begin to count how many snakes succumbed to my handguns, all varieties except King snakes when I was a kid, but just the venomous varieties once I relized that if you didn’t have one raiding your chicken nests a chicken snake was just as valuable as a King snake. Armadillos in cattle pastures were verboten, now I just run them out of my yard ! I squirrel and rabbit hunted with my .22 handguns, and was pretty successful. I loved the challenge. Killed more than a few skunks and coyotes too. You might be surprised how quickly a coyote will expire with a .22 LR with a solid bullet through the lungs. At that time a S&W Model 63 was a pretty constant companion. A standing coyote at 50/60 yards was in deep boo-boo !

If I still had all of the handguns that I have owned I would have to buy another safe. All of the above to say, you have to put in the time. I don’t shoot nearly as much anymore and it shows. A coyote at 50 yards is no longer in trouble with a 4” .22 while sitting on a tractor with just a two hand hold unless he’s mighty unlucky ! On the other hand a bad guy at 25 yards is still in trouble unless he’s very lucky. My eyesight precludes iron sights for me unless I’m shooting paper at -25 yards. That’s why my carry guns all wear red dots and my main hunting revolver wears a scope.

Practice, practice, practice !

 

[Mike s]

I was gripping too tight and pulling shots, so Ioosened up a bit and my accuracy improved. I guess it's the small things. What fundamental thing did you fix that helped your shooting?

Grip pressure (or "Inconsistent Grip Pressures") are pretty common in throwing our shots. Especially if you notice shot groups making a big deviation between magazine changes, or other changes in your Grip (ie, typically shooting low/left on first magazine, then suddenly grouping to the 3 o'clock as you attempt to 'tighten up').

Here's a video series I put together on the Fundamentals, with the 2nd & 3rd videos focusing on Grip (mentions low/left & 3 oclock groups) and the last video on Follow Thru discusses relaxing the grip too soon after the shot breaks, which can lead to shots around the 12 o'clock:

Fundamentals of Handgun Marksmanship:

 

[RF2650]

The Military and Police teach how to fight with a pistol. They need to grip it hard enough that you won't lose control of your pistol while fighting. This requires serious grip pressure and well muscled forearms. They shoot targets with a very hard grip but this is not for the most accurate target shooting, it is training for surviving a fight. Training for self defense is the same. Habitually grip your pistol hard enough that no one can take it away from you or knock it out of your hand because death quickly follows losing control of your weapon.
Target shooting is very different and requires the utmost in consistency in your grip. A pistol recoils differently with different grip positions and different grip pressure and that causes it to shoot to different points of aim. We only need to grip hard enough to prevent movement of the pistol in your hand. Live fire is required to learn how hard you must grip a pistol for target shooting.
For both deadly serious and precision target shooting dry fire is needed to work out how to place the pistol in your hand and how to put your finger on the trigger. The priority for training with dry fire is to pull the trigger without disturbing the sights while gripping with the same pressure needed for live fire.

 

[Drycreek]

Above all, consistency is the key. I wouldn’t grip a handgun differently for target shooting if I were ever thinking about needing one for self defense. It just makes sense to me to use the same grip for both targets and self defense. In a self defense situation you will revert to your training…or should. If you train two ways, which one will you revert to when it goes to hell in a hand basket ?

 

[Mike s]

Above all, consistency is the key. I wouldn’t grip a handgun differently for target shooting if I were ever thinking about needing one for self defense. It just makes sense to me to use the same grip for both targets and self defense. In a self defense situation you will revert to your training…or should. If you train two ways, which one will you revert to when it goes to hell in a hand basket ?

Spot on!

 

[Mike s]

The Military and Police teach how to fight with a pistol. They need to grip it hard enough that you won't lose control of your pistol while fighting. This requires serious grip pressure and well muscled forearms. They shoot targets with a very hard grip but this is not for the most accurate target shooting, it is training for surviving a fight. Training for self defense is the same. Habitually grip your pistol hard enough that no one can take it away from you or knock it out of your hand because death quickly follows losing control of your weapon.
Target shooting is very different and requires the utmost in consistency in your grip. A pistol recoils differently with different grip positions and different grip pressure and that causes it to shoot to different points of aim. We only need to grip hard enough to prevent movement of the pistol in your hand. Live fire is required to learn how hard you must grip a pistol for target shooting.
For both deadly serious and precision target shooting dry fire is needed to work out how to place the pistol in your hand and how to put your finger on the trigger. The priority for training with dry fire is to pull the trigger without disturbing the sights while gripping with the same pressure needed for live fire.

I agree with the parts of your post about the need for both dry- & live-fire, & that grip pressure inconsistencies result in an inconsistent point of impact.

If you were to assert that certain fundamentals are less important during self defense encounters that are 'up close & personal', such as Breath Control & Sight Alignment/Sight Picture, then I'd absolutely agree. (That's why a Flash Sight Picture works at closer distances)

However, I don't agree that the underlying grip techniques need to be different between target shooting & self defense. Muscular forearms & grip strength absolutely help, but aren't a requirement nor a replacement for good technique.

Grip strength needs to be tight enough to:
- allow the guns recoil energy to complete the cycle of operation so you don't cause a malfunction (ie, slide movement to extract/eject/load next round);
- strong-side & support-side hands remain glued together during recoil & follow through;
- wrist tension sufficient to mitigate the nose of the gun jumping wildly during recoil;
- & sights naturally settling right back onto your desired point of aim during follow through.

Caveat: you absolutely 'can' target shoot or go plinking & get by with a weak grip or bad technique, & that in no way equates to a repeatable multiple-round string of fire for defensive marksmanship. If that was what you were getting at, then that much I'd agree with.

 

[Drycreek]

I will add one more thought to this thread. Gripping a handgun with a “loose” grip might work with guns up to about .41 mag, but after that, if you don’t want a front sight indentation in your forehead, you might want to tighten up a bit. A tight grip and pulled shots don’t have to go hand in hand. The object is to not let the sights stray and make your trigger finger a totally independent entity from the hands. Squeeze it any way you want, but squeeze it the same every time !
As an aside: The popular phrase for “squeeze” nowadays is “press”, but squeeze was good enough for Jeff Cooper, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith, et al, so it’s good enough for me !

 

[RF2650]

I do not use the same grip strength for all pistols. In fact I use a different grip strength for each one. The highest grip strength is probably on a S&W 36. The tiny factory grips are a terrible fit for my very large hands and I have to put a lot of power on it to keep it from changing position with every shot.